Saturday, June 27, 2009

the “I Know Better Attitude”

“Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity,…” Hebrews 6:1 NIV


One of the things bothering almost any teacher with experience is the person who knows better than the teacher what should take place in the classroom. A great teacher works to understand and anticipate the needs of the student with their planning and expertise in a subject. Great teachers also recognize the age of other teachers has nothing to do with the ability to teach and will make and receive suggestions over things perceived as necessary to learning. In school districts, it is still common for those teachers with the most experience to “rule” the decision making process without any real thought of the decision not being relevant to the situation.


As I grew up in the church, the concept of submitting to one another was actually relinquished to the tradition of submitting to the elders. Now I have mentioned several times how our elders are the most experienced and godly men in the congregation and yet this does not release the church from its obligation of making decisions. I found it quite refreshing recently to hear one of my elders reminding the bible class how brothers and sisters having a problem with one another were not instructed to take the matter to the elders but rather take it before the church. I mentioned earlier in another blog how we actually created painful relationships and mental anguish for our elders when we take a problem to them and ask for them to side with us against another brother or sister.


Getting to the point of this post, all of us “know better” when we examine how things should work in our congregation. We know what kind of songs should be sung and how they should be sung. We know who should and should not wait on the table or lead a prayer. We know, better than anyone else, what is needed for our church and if it is not going well, it is the preachers fault. We fail to even consider ourselves submitting one to the other in love.


Well, this post is not going to rag on the preacher because it is not any more his fault than my own. In fact, if things are not going well everyone, talking about the wrong things being done, is most likely at the root of the problem. We don’t need to worry about the worker to our right or our left but the one putting shoes on our own feet. We have the choice to work and serve God and make things better ourselves and we don’t need permission to do righteous things in the name of God.


I did say I was not going to rag on preachers but I did not say I would not discuss their bondage relative to the congregation and I believe it is still one of the strongest bondages I have been part of throughout my history with the church. I am sad to say I have been part of a system where young men are sent off to school where personal knowledge of scripture becomes superior to the majority of us and then we tell the teacher/preacher what it is he should teach. I have grown up in a system where it is the job of the elders to hire and fire preachers.


Even when we ignore the concept of a “located preacher,” I am not sure where we find the job description of elders calling for them to handle the hiring and firing of those who serve the church in this capacity. I would guess this goes back to my thinking of an elder as the “CEO” of the congregation instead of the spiritual leader. I believe I even know people who believe the bible should list previous leadership of a business or corporation as a requirement to becoming an elder. It was mentioned in class not long ago how people in crisis often call for the preacher instead of calling for the elders and so I think this is a result in many minds of seeing the eldership along the lines of “business” end of the church and the preacher as the spiritual leader. Sadly, when preachers have become the spiritual leader in a congregation they are rarely appointed an elder. I would guess those seeing the eldership as the business “CEO” might find this in conflict since they are “charged” in the eyes of many with controlling the preacher.


Yes, I have been to elders telling them, (“I know better,”) you would do a good thing if you would get another preacher. While I am completely on the other side of this equation with my current congregation and think our preacher is better than a slice of bread with butter squeezed firmly in my hands, I am sure there are those who think he should be preaching an entirely different message and I would be surprised if they have not been to the elders with this complaint. If it was me taking the message to the elders, I would hope they would tell me to shut my mouth of the complaint unless he was doing and saying something in denial of Christ and in that case I should take the problem to the man myself. In fact, the preacher should probably have his job at his discretion, or at least the discretion of the church and not an eldership and if he is a spiritual leader of the church, the church should ask him to be an elder and not a group of men “traditionally” charged with appointing elders.


Having tried to make my point about how I have always been part of those who know better what should take place, I must confess my view of the life in a congregation has always been attached to the life of the eldership and I am not sure if I have ever been part of a truly live congregation because the church of my heritage has always waited on the command from above, much like the papal system. The church has never been allowed to function properly because the church has never been allowed to be NON-DENOMINATIONAL.


Yes, all of the church congregations of my past have not been non-denominational as they claimed because we (the congregation) had to follow strict guidelines of the hierarchy running the congregation rather than the church doing what the church wanted to do for the cause of Christ.


It is my prayer to live long enough to see the church step out to lead the activities for Christ as we look to the elders for the example of Christian living.

Wednesday, June 24, 2009

With Jesus

“Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.” 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NIV


One of the things I enjoy doing after reading a passage is allowing it to run any number of ways in my mind. The passage above and one beginning Revelation 21 have often come to my mind and running free, I came to realize what we tell children upon the passing of a loved one just might be closer to the truth than what we have learned to believe. In the discussion of the second coming of Jesus, I have not had anyone I know draw the same conclusion but I was surprised to have one person tell a person ridiculing my thoughts how the conclusion was not new and was one held by many in Christian circles.


I mentioned previously how I am not sure the concept of heaven I came to understand as a child is something we will find when we pass from this life. I am convinced we will receive eternal life and the joy we experience will be so wonderful human words and reasoning will not be adequate for description.


When thinking of death and the time prior to the second coming, I am not sure if I ever formulated a belief since it basically dealt with those things unknown and whatever God has planned will happen as He has planned regardless of my “wasted” time contemplating the unknown. Unfortunately, the older I get, the more I dwell on what will take place when I pass from this life and as the passage says, there is encouragement found in these words. We tell children, “Papa has gone to be with Jesus” and I still find great encouragement in these words even if it was not what I have been taught to believe. I now find encouragement in the statement because it is what I believe!


Having read the Reflections and book mentioned in my last blog, I believe both authors believe we are dead until the second coming of Christ and this second coming is coming for all at a given point in the future. In our reasoning of time, I would agree with this conclusion but encouragement now comes to me from this passage as I consider time not existing for God. Since I mentioned Revelation 21, I would like to recommend the reading of Reflection 310 as a great read on the new heavens and new earth. http://www.zianet.com/maxey/reflx310.htm


My journey into this thinking began when I participated as a reader in a discussion of the Preterist view of the second coming of Jesus. Until three or four years ago, I had not even heard the terminology and coming face to face with people who believe Jesus returned the second time as promised in AD 70 was “hogwash” in my thinking. Having begun to examine bible passages more closely, there were some statements made from those holding this view I could not explain away so easily and my mind began to run wild with what is possible with God and my current belief consists of Christ having come, presently coming and coming for me (according to my concept of time) in the future.


I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' [ Exodus 3:6] ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Matthew 22:32 NIV


This passage became a turning point in my reasoning of a reality I understood but could not bring to reasonable understanding in human terms. I now believe death is an end to our human reality (preliminary) and our entrance (resurrection) into the true reality of eternity (where time does not exist) begins. I have come to believe God IS and with this concept, Adam and Eve have already experienced the fulfillment of the second coming of Christ and have been given the reward of eternal life or the second death in the lake of fire.


Not believing we possess an eternal soul, but an existence to be given eternal life or the second death, I could not grasp what became of the ME in death if I ceased to exist until resurrection. If nothing lived on, then I would simply cease to exist until God put me back together at resurrection (even though this is possible with God). In my thinking, God would still be my God but this would make Him the God of the dead and the living. In my current thinking, those facing the second death have no attachment to God any longer and God will only be God of the living.


My basic understanding of the passage I began with this morning was within the belief of Christ coming, every eye seeing him come, recognition of the dead rising to meet Him and then I’m last because I am His and still alive. This belief is not formulated strictly from an order of things presented, but the ADDITION of timing on my part. It was something to happen at one point in time and does not allow past, present and future to exist together. Confined in a human existence, the second coming is always something in the future.


Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, Hebrews 9:27 NIV


I have also taken this scripture and attached timing in the future. My current belief suggests this passage is nothing more than an order of things for us and could easily take place as we move from human existence into eternity. Outside of time, resurrection, judgment and reward/punishment can take place immediately.


We look at a grave site and tell the child, “Papa is not here but with Jesus.” For some reason, we don’t say Papa is dead and someday, maybe three or four thousand years in the future God will put Papa back together so He can give him his reward. I have now come to believe we tell our children this because it is the reality of what is coming. I now believe the statement “so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him” means those who passed before us did rise first and are presently recipients of the eternal life promised to all of us.


The encouragement I have in this passage is not that I will be dust for ages to come while judgment is coming but rather being greeted by my savior prior to those who are alive and returning with him to greet those still alive when I am gone.


My encouragement comes from knowing God has provided the opportunity through Jesus to be with Him forever and as the father of the prodigal son ran to receive his child, I can’t imagine God being bound by time and simply waiting for some time in the future to welcome and bestow eternal life on His children.


When I pass from this life, don’t grieve for me because I plan on being in the presence of Jesus, FULL OF LIFE!

Monday, June 22, 2009

The "Necessity" of Baptism

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” Romans 3:23 NIV


“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in [ Or through] Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23 NIV


“And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 18:3 NIV


Every time I think I have found the last error of teaching specific to my past, I just have to read a little further and dwell on exactly what is said and not said. In fact, I find myself ever more saddened with the fact we have not been silent where the bible is silent. The scriptures mentioned above bring great conflict to a belief I have been holding as fact since early in my childhood. Many of those in my heritage still can’t turn lose of the possibility for anyone being saved outside of baptism and yet the bible does not teach only the baptized (for the remission of sins) will be saved.


This concept has been a tremendous struggle in my life because the foundational belief of my heritage has been the necessity of baptism for salvation (it should have been Jesus and the cross). The very goal of many in my denomination has been to get the “lost” to the point of asking for baptism so they will be saved. Often, when this has been achieved in their life, we basically expect them to pick up the other “necessities” in bible class as they mature as a Christian. We then see ourselves as having successfully saved another precious soul from the fires of hell and move on to our next target.


Having been brought up in the same training as those who demand baptism for salvation, I fully expect every discussion of the challenges to this belief to almost immediately come to a statement about babies. No, I do not believe babies are born with sin in their life but I do believe they become sinners with their first sin.


I was taught babies and small children were “safe” in their relationship to God and did not need the “saving waters of baptism” until they reached the age of accountability or understood the implications of sin. In fact, faced with other denominations baptizing their children, I was taught the bible told us we needed to be aware of what was taking place in baptism for it to be valid. Oddly enough, the application of this principle to those old enough to understand but still in the same unknowledgeable position was not possible. They were simply lost because of the reality of sin in their lives.


If I use the process of proofs learned in geometry, then the statement in the bible of all having sinned placed with the statement declaring the wages of sin to be death, I have to believe all are faced with the sentence of death unless God intervenes with the blood of Jesus. I am not sure if the reader would agree, but this is what I see the bible teaching. If I place the teaching of the church of Christ in my past (many no longer teach baptism in the same way) stating only baptism will bring a person into contact with the saving blood of Jesus, I have to deal with those not baptized outside of scripture.


With the bible claiming all have sinned and the wage of sin being death, I have to leave the instruction of the bible and invent the method by which those, not knowing enough as children, can be saved. As stated previously, many believe children are not in a position of needing salvation because they exist in some sort of “safe” state before God. This position comes primarily from the statement by Jesus given above in Matthew 18. What seems easy to me is how Jesus does not say the child is free of sin which would contradict the declaration of all having sinned, but rather admonishes everyone to become like the child if they are to enter the kingdom of heaven.


The focus of my training in the church has been how entrance to the kingdom is based on being sin free and the only way to be free of sin is through baptism. If the admonition in Matthew 18 is not to be free of sin but to become like a child, then baptism is not the key and those having been baptized do not have an exclusive “ticket” to heaven. No, I do not believe we have Jesus giving us an exception to the need for baptism in children and to the thief on the cross, we don’t have to make the attempt of “timing” death so the thief can be forgiven only because Jesus had not died and created the “law” of salvation only in baptism taught by those of my heritage. Relying only on the bible, we have those who become like the child gaining entrance into heaven. I can accept those who were/are forgiven by Jesus as being those who become like the child.


While this belief has as much possibility of being wrong as the one I was taught as a child, I no longer have to make the bible say something it does not say to account for those exceptions demanded by my past belief. I can now accept anyone being accepted into heaven, recognized by God as having become like the child. I can accept the childlike purity of any sinner being possible regardless of educational level attained suddenly making them accountable to sin and condemning them without baptism.


If the bible teaches the necessity of baptism for salvation, then we must deal with what the bible does not teach.


  1. The bible does not teach any exemption regardless of age or mental ability.
  2. The bible does not teach “timing based” approach to when baptism is required.
  3. The bible does not allow for any exceptions outside of our ability to understand.


I have been told by more than one person in my fellowship how someone having not heard the message of Jesus leading to understanding and baptism will be condemned not because they did not have the ability to understand but because of the sin in their life demanding the sentence of death. Using only the bible and this thinking process, the nine year-old child (pick your own age) is not condemned because of his/her inability to understand but rather because of the sin in their life.


Have all sinned? Are the wages of sin death? Where are the exceptions? Are our children safe or are their sins forgiven because they are like a child? If their sins are forgiven, why is baptism not necessary and why is baptism needed at a later point in their life? Ultimately, who am I to put God into a box where salvation is based exclusively on my understanding of God’s plan from the bible? God, the creator and author of everything will not be limited by the foolishness of my ability to understand. When He calls me home, things will be according to His design and not my understanding of His design.


Yes, I can accept salvation not being based on our ability to perform but rather Jesus on the cross.

Friday, June 19, 2009

The Consuming Fire

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16 NIV

I have mentioned in my writing how I was quick to condemn others and let them know I was going to heaven and they were going to hell. Basically, anyone who did not believe as I believed was going to hell because I was right and they were wrong. My salvation depended, not on what Jesus did, but on my ability to learn and be obedient to the gospel and obedient to the gospel meant I was baptized for the remission of my sins (comments coming soon).


When I began looking at the traditions of my youth, nothing was sacred and I am still finding things in my life influencing my belief and maturity towards God. When I see these things in my reading, I will meditate on them and attempt to discover what is really said. I’m not sure if it has bothered anyone else in their study but at one time, I considered I might not go to heaven because I did not fully understand Greek. Now, while I would agree it can be a good thing, I do not believe God has hidden salvation in a clever manner and only those with enough training will have the opportunity to accept the saving blood of Jesus in their lives. In fact, coming soon, I believe God has made it so easy; even a very young child can go to heaven.


When speaking of heaven, as I have mentioned a couple of times already, most people I know still believe in heaven and hell and I was extremely surprised one day to read the following passage in my bible.


The wages of sin is eternal life without God.


OK, so I hope you would agree the bible does not say the wages of sin is eternal life and yet I have always been taught there is a part of us lasting forever and some will live eternally in heaven (great joy) and others will live in hell (great suffering). I was taught you have to believe in hell if you believe in heaven because one can’t exist without the other. In other words, if the bible teaches one then the bible teaches the other; a place for the wicked and a place for the righteous in Jesus. While I still have a ladder leaned against the fence I climbed over to get to my changed belief in this matter, I no longer believe in an eternal existence of suffering for the wicked but rather a second death I see presented in the bible.


The bible leads me to believe only God is eternal and when we get to stand before Him at judgment; He will give us the gift of eternal life. In fact, this is the promise we read in the bible. When I now read, I see life apposed to death and not heaven apposed to hell. (Just a side note but my computer wants me to change apposed to opposed but it would not be correct and I have mentioned before I love being correct.)


In John 3:16, I always saw a passage declaring something not completely true. In the training of my heritage, I saw this passage as one needing other passages to be true since it did not mention baptism. I never saw the opposite of salvation was to perish and why should I see this when I had been taught the wicked live forever in torment and will never perish. I went to other passages and read again how I should not fear those who could destroy my body but only Him who could destroy both my body and soul in the fires of hell. I know hell is mentioned here and I still have several unanswered questions on this topic but destroyed still means destroyed and not tormented and those who do understand the language this text was written in will confirm destruction meaning destruction and not torment. I also took a look at the passage in Jude where Sodom serves as an example of those who will suffer the fate of eternal fire and began to look to see whether or not these people are still burning or whether they perished in the fire. Possibly those receiving the letter could go visit the location and still see the fires burning with people yelling and screaming to get out but I think the example is much easier to see being one of complete destruction.


For some time now, I have desired to take Edward Fudge’s book, “The Fire That Consumes” and go through it with some other Christians in the form of a study (we could use the unused group I created) and see the comments of others reading and studying the topic. I have already read this book but think it would be a great study since the author lives in Houston. Since I still have questions unanswered on this topic, it might be possible to get the author to schedule a time in his schedule to come visit and speak to those things not understood or needing clarification. I would need to order another book because mine is given out and I no longer know where it might be.


There is much information on this topic and in closing; I am providing the following link to the much more scholarly writing of Al Maxey on this subject (he covers the rich man and Lazarus in his first Reflection on the topic of hell under the topical index of “The Nature of Man and Final Punishment.”


http://www.zianet.com/maxey/topic.htm


I also provide the following link to a radio interview with Edward Fudge with him discussing the topic on the radio. It is about 38 minutes and I would caution the reader not to fall into the trap of my heritage where I would condemn the message of an intelligent man due to an error in the message. I am sure Edward knows there is not a chapter seven in Jude and yet, the Mike of the past would have condemned the message due to this error.


Just a closing comment but my current thoughts are considering if there is a heaven since I believe I was taught a lie about hell. I have no doubt of being given eternal life but the specifics of our eternal existence and what I have been taught is currently churning around in my brain and I really like one of the possibilities.


www.edwardfudge.com/radio-hell.mp3